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Welcome to Dumbgeons and Dragons! We're a D&D 5th edition actual play podcast who today's
just answering your questions! Who today is just answering your questions! I'm your
Dungeon Master Russ More and with me today is Amy More. I'm the Dungeon Mistress. Also
with me Tom Laird. I'm the Dungeon Jester. Oh, I like it. As well on the call with
me, Carla Johnson. I am, I don't know, like some kind of dungeon peasant realistically
probably. I like bring people girl. Well, that's what happens. Somebody has to do it.
It's a good job. It's a job. And gracing our presence again, hopefully to not kill
us all is Sean Howard. I am the Dungeon Devourer. Oh, that's good. That's all
I got. That's good. That's all you need. That's all you need. So we're on a bit
of a break where we asked for your questions following the climactic season finale, whatever
we want to call it, where things happened. And if this is your first episode, maybe don't listen
to this episode. This is all spoilers. It's pretty much going to be 100% spoilers. Yeah,
so we'll give you a second to hit pause. Go listen to everything else. Yeah, go back
and listen to the entire back catalog and then pick this episode back up. It'll only
take you nine months. It's fine. It's fine. You can listen. If you listen from start to
finish nonstop. I hear some people listen to it on like two times speed. I can't
do that. But if you do that, I can do one and a half times speed. If it's something
that is in character base, but it's more talky, like, like analyze this. They talk
fast anyway. I can listen to them on one and a half and it's just like blow
your mind fast. So now that you've left and now only the people who are here who want
to hear all the spoilies and answer all the questions. Sean is here to answer questions
as both Sean and as Tiamat. There were some questions that were regarding both
characters. So we're going to, we're going to dive into those. And then because he
said he's an old man, he has to dive out early. So we'll kind of, we'll kind
of just see how it goes. It's a whole dive in, dive out situation. I'm an old
dragoness. That's fair. I understand. Do we want to start with a Tiamat question?
I want to start with a Russ question. Oh, so Russ, were you scared to do the
final scene where the whole party was going to die sitting in the same room
with Amy? Sean, there's a reason that I asked somebody else to play Tiamat.
And I feel like you hit it right on the head is that, well, I'm protected
from Tom and Carla because of distance. I've been yelled at before at the end of
games. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes these games have affected our relationship.
I feel like I would have been yelled at after that game. So yes, I was
really setting her up where she can't cast a single spell as Tiamat
devours the party. I don't know why that would set you up. Like why the
fuck was I even there?
And for some points of it, I wasn't. I was invisible.
I think if you would have given Amy a heroic enough of a death, she would
not have yelled at you. But anything less than that. Oh, yes.
With a song. It would have to have a song. Sure. Yeah, there would have to
be a song. Yes. Some sort of sweet in memoriam to Thea. Yeah. In the
arms of an angel. Fly away. Don't sue us, please.
Just continue to sing it off key like that.
Yeah, yeah. You know, we will not know that is her song.
We're safe. No, she's no clue. She's like, what is that?
So, yes, to answer that question, I was scared. Makes sense.
Now, that said, go to a Sean question now.
How much did you enjoy playing Tiamat and trying to kill Flint the
in Nulara? Oh, that was super fun.
I have to say, OK, it wasn't fun when I killed.
You are. That was not fun, but it was super fun playing Tiamat.
Yeah, there was a noticeable mood shift, I think, that we all felt.
Yeah. In that moment.
Look, you guys have been playing for so many years.
It's insane. Yeah.
Well, and also, I think Carla legitimately cried.
And like we're all on the video chat.
So I legitimately started crying and we all just like froze for a minute.
There was a big long pause. Yeah.
You were sort of laughing, sort of crying.
Oh, I mean, classic me, Sean.
This is I always laugh like that's my go to like
I'm having an emotion and then I just laugh.
That's my go to thing.
When I got in a car accident and the police came, like wasn't my fault,
but someone like rode off my car and I was talking to the cop
and I just was like, oh, laughing.
And I was like, I'm sorry.
I sound like a crazy person right now.
But like, I'm going to start bawling my eyes out if I don't laugh.
So he is like, I understand. It's fine.
Do you laugh at funerals?
I mean, I don't think I have, but I feel like it could happen to giggle.
I repress the urge to giggle.
And it is completely a nervous it like you can't control.
Just my nervous like I got robbed once.
I don't know. I'm just telling you guys all these dramatic stories,
but this is always my reaction.
This is a male-backed episode. We lay it all out.
Yeah. All just nervous laughter.
Emotions just make me laugh.
An accident robbed and then I killed you.
Man, I'm just pulling my AGs.
What a steamed up year in, hey?
All of my like peak peak life events.
And I think that leads us into the next question,
which is Nulara really dead?
You did do the glowing eyes at the end.
There were the glowing eyes of the knife.
That went dim.
That dimmed out.
We don't know what that means,
but I think this more stems from the fact that we as players
kind of gooned up a pretty big rule.
See, I don't feel like we did.
I don't feel like we gooned it up either.
We all agreed that that was the rule.
So that was the rule.
I remember talking about it.
Like when we were literally around the table.
Yeah.
No, yeah. No, no.
I don't think we gooned it up in the moment.
I think that's how we've played it ever since.
But when it's put through ears of people who read the book.
OK, well, we gooned it up.
So what we did is we have a house rule
and maybe we should start
putting these house rules on the Internet
because they I think that's where some of the disconnect came from.
In that moment is that the the book as the player's handbook reads
is if you sustain damage
equal to your maximum below zero, it's instant death.
And we treat that as 50 percent.
So if you have 100 hit points and you go 50 below or more,
it's instant death.
So it's more hardcore.
That's right. We so hardcore.
But that's that's a house rule that we've had basically since we sat down.
Now, I tried to find where we found that.
Oh, yeah, it does not exist.
We all did so much research after, but we all 100 percent
believe that was the rule.
I mean, so it was the I think rest for sure made it up
because you couldn't find it in the moment and was like,
here's what we're going to do.
And we not knowing any better, we're just like you to man.
It's funny that of all the things we don't remember
and don't know how to do that, we all like legitimately
we're like, yeah, that's the rule.
Yeah, like that's the thing we've remembered.
That's that's how we've played it because we've run into character
like almost deaths before, like an episode.
Well, around the table, around the table.
Flint almost died very early on.
Yep. I've done some death saving throws.
Episode six against the Earth, the tar, both new Laura and Thea
were unconscious that and I think fucking hedges
pretty sure that came up in that episode.
And then new Laura almost died against Cuth as well.
So it's come up before.
Sorry. Yeah, the whole hedge thing.
I was like I don't Tom told you.
I was like when he was playing his campaign, I'm like,
you've got to put a fucking maze in it.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, I sent a note to Sean.
I was like, how like how much of an asshole am I
if I make them go in a maze?
And he was like, no, you have to.
You absolutely have to.
Who's the worst?
So I think it's awesome that the fans are rallying together
to try and save new Laura.
That's super cool. I agree.
I thought it was so it was so nice and especially.
So we had recorded, of course, like a long time
before the episode came out.
Like, I don't know how long a month, probably.
It's probably around a month to.
I think it was about two months.
Yeah, so I had already been through like all of the stages of grief.
I was totally like it was fine.
She wasn't bargaining.
I went for like an hour and a half long walk the next day after we recorded.
I got into it, you know.
But yeah, I thought it was like it was really nice
that people weren't like, good, beat it.
No, there was definitely.
We were tired of her.
Anyway, never liked her.
Anyway, we got that.
Yeah, no feedback that we got that was, oh, beat it.
It was like we did a live listen of it
with our with some of our patrons and like
I knew it was coming and I'm sitting there and Amy's like,
oh, don't worry about it.
It'll be fine.
And it's like chats going live, chats going, everybody's
and then it stops.
People were upset.
But, you know, I think that's kind of lovely because that means
they were emotionally invested enough in our characters
to hear that one of them died.
I'm like kind of borderline happy that we legit made some people cry.
Some listeners were like, well, I'm bawling for the third time today,
you guys. Thanks so much.
Well, stop listening.
But like, don't stop listening.
But don't. But like, go like, you know, self care.
Mm hmm. Yeah, the Donnie one was it was harsh.
Yeah, I didn't cry at all.
I'm a robot.
Yeah, we got off that call and Amy's like, am I dead inside?
So when when you had Donnie go up and do this one attack
you made this one awesome role and Donnie attacked Tiamat.
I was messaging Russ and I'm like, should I take the damage?
Because we'd been deciding, right, that he wasn't magical.
If he's a magical. And Russ was just like, yes.
Yeah, it was just it was so like, oh, the whole thing even.
So doing it live was, of course, like emotional and like, whoa,
because we've been playing this character for so long.
But then listening to it, too, was like, you know, next level.
Obviously, we don't have we're not live mixing in sound effects
and like, yeah, no, it definitely horrible pregnant silences
to like just fill with tears.
Russ made it better and very much worse.
Yes. Oh, exactly.
It was yes.
It was so like emotionally impactful listening to it,
even knowing what happened.
Good job, Russ. You're the best.
I like the sounds when Tiamat ate all the other people.
It was crunchy and juicy and.
You got to you got to get that sweet, sweet
foley in there with blood splatter everywhere.
Were you just like eating a sandwich in front of you?
You didn't notice I was doing that one live. Oh, that's what was happening.
A quick question here.
How many hit points did Tiamat have now?
Sean, do you remember? Oh, good question.
I should have pulled it up.
It was so they finished the two levels.
So we were down down one hundred and fifty. Yeah.
So that would have put her at six hundred and ninety.
Holy shit. I think is about where.
Yeah. Oh, my God.
And the craziest thing was that last round.
I think it was the round after Nulara died.
I was Tiamat was sitting at like what was it, Russ?
Twenty seven hit points after Donnie.
Yeah, it was no more than that.
It was something like that.
And it was crazy.
It was crazy. I couldn't believe it.
Yeah, one more one more turn around.
Like it would have been a different, different show.
How does that make you feel, Carla, knowing you are literally
like one turn away from not dying?
It's like I said, like I have like distance from it now.
And I feel like it was such a good like New
Lara came so close to dying so many times.
She's human. Like, yeah, she has like no business.
Really, like humans have no fighting and trying to do any of these things.
Like, she's so like soft and weak and like doesn't even really have great skills.
Like, you know, so it was a I thought it was like a good fitting heroic end,
even though obviously like, yeah, being alive would be like the better choice.
But she got a shitload of damage in at the end.
Right. Like, I felt like she went out on it, went out on a good note
when Lady Silverhand like froze shit.
And I just got to like hack away Tiamat.
It was, you know, that was fun.
What's it like dealing whole lots of damage?
Oh, it's great.
It's the only time it happened.
So if it results in death, I wouldn't recommend it.
Well, let's go.
Let's go to a a Sean question.
Knowing how it wraps up, would you have chosen to play any differently?
Well, so I was assuming I was going to kill them all.
Yeah. So we were assuming you were going to, too.
Sean and I had a pregame meeting
just to kind of talk about all the stats and all that sort of stuff.
And we were looking at it as like if they don't do X, X, Y, Z,
like, there's a good chance that all three of them are dead in the water.
Even just hearing that number of hit points, like, how did we not all die?
That's crazy.
Well, you do have this this like one character that just attacks 30 times.
Yeah. Yeah.
Donny was very helpful.
OK, my one regret, it's not the answer.
The question is, there was a slight disconnect.
I think I was laying on my floor and my my I think my my my phone
went to nighttime, right, where it just turns off all notifications.
So you guys are like sitting around waiting for me because my
and then I messed up because I wanted to just have it appear
and then, you know, come in like this.
You know, that would have been amazing.
That would have been great.
That was the only thing that I would like to change.
The entrance, the grand entrance.
That's good. Some sort of smoke bomb and then.
That would be even better.
For for, I guess, Flintia New Laura,
Flintia, do you wish you brought a cleric to the to the gunfight?
I mean, yes and no.
I think a cleric would have been really helpful
for us throughout all of our adventures, not just for that fight.
Well, the thing is, is that when we created these characters,
we didn't quite realize how important bAlydince is.
We just chose what we wanted to be and we went for it.
And it worked out real well because we have a DM who's very kind
and we seem to pick up NPCs that happen to be clerics or wizards or someone.
Now, I would also just like to say that I dropped the ball
in the Tiamat fight because I was so far over on the other
fucking side of Tiamat that I couldn't get close enough
to make any of my healing spells do anything.
And so and it unfortunately didn't occur to me to use my fucking thunder
clap tome, my tome of thunder to get over to them faster
until after New Laura died.
I know it's sorry, buddy.
Probably good you weren't over within that 90 foot radius.
I wouldn't have absolutely died.
I wasn't even tacking right when she died.
It was I was going for flint.
It was accidental. I was just like.
Yeah, it was just it was just proximity to flint
because Tiamat was trying to take out flint
and he was dealing over 100 damage in one round and like in one turn.
And I mean, I guess I was aware of that, that had I gone over there,
I would have been within the blast zone.
And like, frankly, you guys, your hit points, well, it weighed my own.
And so I was attacking flint and another individual
in this group decided, oh, New Laura's in the blast zone.
Who would that be?
That was established very early on,
and then there was no movement declared.
That's true. And it was looking back at it.
I should have fucking moved after one of my attacks to like free up some space.
Sorry, Amy, I interrupted you.
Oh, no, that's OK.
I can't remember what I was saying, but I just feel like I do have
healing word and I had mass heal wounds.
And like I had some good because I always tried to make sure
I had healing spells that we could use.
And I had potions.
And I even my last ditch effort was to give
guacamole my ring of which I think is a question in here.
What is on the ring?
What is on the ring of spell storing?
So now that we're on the ring, what is on it?
Can you bring up my sheet?
I know there is a healing spell on it,
which is what I was hoping that she would use for herself.
Well, I had potions like I still had healing potions,
but I had to decide like I just decided to use all of my things
to try and do damage, not to try and.
And you know what?
I think that was generally you could.
That sounds like we play the game.
That's the way we play the game, though, right?
We try to go all in.
But I think maybe this also might be a little lesson learned that
taking a step back and taking care of yourself, too,
might be like, you know, a good thing, a bAlydince.
So my ring of
spell storing is OK.
So it currently holds healing word, which is a third level spell
guiding bolt and searing smite.
So there would have been a heal spell in there.
So I gave it to guacamole, but she couldn't get to you fast enough.
Well, I think when you have seven attacks, it's it's easy to pause
and down a potion as Flint did a few times.
But when you have one, I think Newara made the right call,
like trying to adapt.
Yeah, I think as far as you guys played it from from the DM watching it,
like I think you guys played it well for your characters,
because although the session took an hour and a half to play through
where there were only four or five rounds,
which means there was 30 seconds from when Tiamat comes out,
eats those wizards and then battle starts.
So 30 seconds from when battle starts that that is actually happening.
It's not long in terms of like the in-game time. Sure.
That kind of makes me feel better.
Like literally, she pops up at a nowhere and we slash and hack.
One of us dies, but then eventually we kill her. Yeah.
Like we're all within like a few blinks of the eye.
And that's, you know, that's a lightning breath.
That's a poison breath.
That's two flame breaths. That's acid breath.
I love that you poison breath me, by the way.
I had no idea that was funny.
I was like, oh, yeah, give it to me.
Like I said, me and Sean had had a pregame about Tiamat,
but I didn't tell him any of your resistances.
Well, thank you, because that would be a dick move.
That would be a super dick move.
Tiamat wouldn't have known.
Tiamat wouldn't have known.
I was like, how hard should I go?
And he was like, kill them all.
I can tell. And here's how you do it.
Russ, did any questions ask about the two rounds of eating all the
eating all the dudes?
No, because that did not go as planned in the book.
And I don't think Russ or I expected it to go.
So the whole idea is Tiamat has to eat the red wizards by color.
And then what's his name?
Severin Severin.
And so I think the way the books written is that gives you three rounds
to lay into Tiamat, where she can't she's like she's so focused.
She won't attack back.
But it was so funny because it was just like that was everyone was just
like staring.
It was just this like tableau of quiet.
I wasn't aware that we were in combat.
And I think maybe you're always in combat.
And that's the thing, too.
When you were you are maybe are not, I don't know,
considering switching up how we approach battles in combat
and changing it, because right now it's very much a end roll for initiative.
Right. Yeah. But nobody had rolled for initiative.
So we've really been like Pavlov's dog.
We were so trained.
And I kind of like that said, I like the way that end of time does it
with the with the dungeon world aspect, right, where it's very.
Action, you know, something happens.
What do you do? What do you do because of it? Yeah.
Yeah. So Tiamat emerges.
What do you do? Right.
We stand and gawk like, fuck it.
Maybe you do.
Like Tiamat emerges.
That could still be something that happens.
That was my favorite part of the whole thing was when Tiamat's head
is just right over the just like I could just the breath coming over you.
Just like right there in that moment.
Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah.
But again, I'm so glad that you were Tiamat, Sean,
because you added a certain level of levity that absolutely yes.
Because if it was resting all those things and doing all those things,
it I would have taken it much more personally than it would have been,
because it is a role of the die and it is how we play.
But it would have been like, you fucking like, why did you do that?
Like, see, this is why I got an outside source.
You fucking took coming in and just
not because I couldn't handle it.
I could handle it.
Let's be honest. Let's be honest.
Yeah. You can't.
I couldn't handle it.
Russ can't handle being smothered in his sleep.
That's not his fault.
Who can? It's OK to admit you can't handle that.
Was there we kind of we kind of touched on this.
Was there a way to make Donnie's attacks magical?
Not in the moment, I don't think.
Could we have gone to a wizard and imbued him with some magical power?
Maybe. But in the moment, I don't think so.
Now, that said, as we had mentioned, Donnie's last attack counted.
It did. So how will I interpret that in canon?
Because I thought about it when Sean asked.
And, you know, kind of just quickly bounced off as like
there's some power that came from Nulara or something
that happened that went to Donnie and gave him the ability to
inflict some damage, be it small or large.
It was his grief. It was his love for Nulara.
Love conquers all. Love is magical.
Exactly. In the arms of an angel.
And it makes sense, like they were like mystically bound together.
So like the severing of that connection could have like
released some sort of magical energy.
Yeah. It makes sense.
Also, super great for the story. Exactly.
Oh, I think we had to. Like, we couldn't have not.
It was Donnie's big moment. We're all like, yeah, I think we had to.
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
It wouldn't have felt right otherwise.
You know, listening back and editing to it or editing it.
I was like, I listened to it for 10 hours straight, 12 hours straight.
How much weeping did you do? Oh, so much weeping.
I was like, no, I'm not crying hard enough.
I need to move that.
But I really need to wrap up these sound effects.
Yeah. But I think it worked.
Had we not counted it and I had said something like, oh, he's not magical.
Like that would have been the room.
The room would have turned on you, Russ.
So there would have been one of these.
That said, we didn't.
Sean and I didn't say that the thing counted.
We let you role play out, Donnie, and then go back.
And he went by.
And I mean, you could have rolled poorly and not hit at all.
But he did. So story above all else for me.
So Donnie's last attack did count, in fact, it did.
And yeah, so we're tracking that up to the magical power of friendship.
All right. So here's the main point.
I should point out, I made an error listening back.
So if any fans, I don't know if any fans have added up all the damage.
I don't know if it was all in there, but
because the hard part is it's late at night.
And, you know, like Tom is literally doing like 32, 35 damage, 12 cold, 37.
And I think I took one of those 37, which I think was a roll to hit.
And I think I took it as damage as well.
So there was one of them.
Nope. Take back these.
You know what? These things happen.
It's just like it's like 17 things he's calling out.
I'm like, I think I got them all.
So I mean, like, keep up.
I had like four fucking attacks and then I got to action surge at one point
for a fifth, like it was, I mean, I built Flint to be a fucking champion fighter.
That is what he does.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I think I did get confused at one point.
That's fair. Yeah.
We I do still have the image you sent me of the sheet,
so we can go back and check it.
But I mean, the last I don't think it would have mattered, though, that 32.
He still would have killed Tiamat in that last round.
Yeah, you had 20 and Flint did like almost max damage four times.
Yeah, it was insane.
I think that was even when you you action search, right?
So there was five attacks there.
So basically, Tiamat was dead after the first attack.
And I was just like, no, I'm going to wait till the end,
just because Tom thought he was dying.
Tom was like, I'm going out in a ball of glory.
Oh, I was like, like literally, I kept my action
surge for like the last possible moment to like get that one extra shot in.
And I was like, well, this is it.
Yes. Now we're never.
I saw you like, I'm going out in a in glory.
And I was like, yeah, no, because had it not killed to you,
had he not killed Tiamat in that moment.
Oh, I was Tiamat.
Tiamat would have had a legendary action
on the next between turn legendary action.
Flint was down to like 20 hit points.
It was like less than 20.
Had Tiamat had one more turn,
both Flint and Thea, I think, would have been dead.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. If you could have caught me, I would have wild shaped
and then and then you could have killed me as a wolf.
But then I come back with all the hit points as Thea.
But actually, if you'd wild shaped, you know, I see
I didn't want to attack.
I didn't want to attack any animals.
So if you wild shaped, that might have been a good point.
That's true. There was precedent.
He wasn't attacking hippogriffs.
He wasn't attacking Donnie. Oh, that's true.
Yeah. Yeah.
Why was he wasn't attacking Glock?
Yeah, true.
I was too emotionally like distraught.
That would have been a good move.
Those pieces together.
We would have ended with you joining joining Tiamat.
If I could turn back down.
You're just permanently a wolf and you are like Tiamat's right hand man.
And this is what I do now.
I live here now.
Every survival man, it's survival shown.
I mean, this kind of ties in with some of the other stuff we've answered,
but we'll ask it anyways.
What was the hardest part and the most enjoyable part
of walking in to play the big, bad, evil guy or girl from another show?
Well, I think it's hard.
It's always hard coming into a table.
It's nice because I've been at the table with all of you before that.
So that made it easier.
But right, there's a you guys have a rapport.
And like, I listen to all your episodes.
So I sort of.
But you know what I mean?
Coming in, you're like, you're a fifth, I'm a fourth wheel, fifth wheel, whatever it is.
Yeah, so I will.
You make us perfectly bAlydinced and really rounded us out.
So I think that's the hardest thing, right?
Is just coming in and not wanting to overbear, right?
Like, like just to and wow, the most fun.
I think it was that opening bit where nobody did anything.
And I just had all three of Tiamat's heads right on the just like
cocking my head at her, just like, I think I called her child.
Make an amulet. Right.
And my favorite moment was, yes, was that, Tom, when I was like I was.
So basically I was like, she only wants to eat all of the red wizards and stuff.
And so she was like, are you you're not one of them, are you?
Yes, I am. We are.
And pull out the amulet.
I'm not putting two and two together.
Check out my jewelry.
That was my favorite moment.
I'm surprised I didn't die.
Nularaaaa, it should have been me.
I tried. I put you in a poison cloud.
I did everything.
That just made me stronger.
It should have made me stronger.
Well, work on how to figure that one out.
Would would you three have ever would you have
would Flint, Thea or Nularaaaa building those characters,
would you have changed anything in early levels of those characters
to try and help with the fight?
Knowing how it went.
I mean, knowing how many like good bonuses and attacks
Flint had going into that fight, I wouldn't have changed him one bit.
He needed every fucking scrap of it.
For Thea, I don't think I could have changed her in any way.
What I needed to be is I needed to be a higher level druid, but.
I am not in control of that,
so I needed more than just one fucking spell
that I could have used against Tiamat.
The other things that we needed to do to weaken Tiamat,
that would have been better for you.
Yeah, so there was like there's like seven things you can do.
And so when when Russ and I met, we're going over everything on her.
And she's written to say, OK, when she comes out,
she is really like impossible to beat, because, you know,
and then each thing you accomplish, right?
Like the mask, you know, you know, killing off.
You killed one of them, not the four, you know, killing off.
Each thing you've done will lower her.
And so I would lose, you know, that reaction, those legendary actions.
Those I think the next level, if I'm right,
Russ would have restricted how many legendaries I get.
I get it. Like we could have taken you down enough notches
that I would have been.
It was one more.
One more would have really helped.
And you didn't even let me have my tear it on.
I will say that I put Ross.
I said, hey, Ross, so how many do you think they're going to have done?
You know, because we're way early.
And he was like, two.
Oh, oh, Ross.
You knew it was a skill.
I did. That's fun.
Going into like, because the one that you could have done,
but I knew you probably weren't going to be able to do
was interrupting the ritual.
That's a hard one.
You would have need to have stopped.
There were there always needed to be five going
performing the ritual at any time.
And there were six up above that you couldn't get to.
And they were so far apart.
They were. They were so far apart.
We were trying so hard to stop the ritual.
Like we wanted to.
And the modules written said we're just like running across the hall
the whole time.
Well, I love that your immersion killed one right away.
I was listening. I was like, yes.
But yeah, I mean, the module is written.
So it's not going to you're not going to write.
Like you're not going to stop.
Yeah, it's not easy.
It's not supposed to be easy.
I do wish I was a higher level Drew that I could have.
What about you, Nularaaaa? What would you change?
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, play a totally different kind of character,
which I wouldn't have wanted to do, right?
Like I was Nularaaaa for so long.
So I think because none of us had really played before
and we literally just like opened the book and we're like,
well, I guess this is what I'll be.
There was like a fun innocence to how we created
those characters that then we were stuck with,
which made us have to, you know, try and figure things out and just.
It was really a get creative with it.
You got it. You made your bed.
So I wouldn't have wanted to change that, even though like
as a D&D character, I don't think I would play a human ranger again.
It's like, what are the two like weakest things I could be?
I should do that.
So I probably wouldn't play that again.
Personal challenge.
I'm happy that I did for Nularaaaa.
We're all we're all happy you did, too.
If Tiamat were to try and make an escape again someday,
how would you this is for this is for Sean and or anybody else.
How would you see her attempting that escape for a second time?
And would you want to reprise her role?
So mostly for Sean.
But everybody else can answer how she should escape.
There's no if I'm coming back.
It's a solid yes.
I think it's going to be like a Tiamat
like Mission Impossible thing.
Now she's got to escape.
So it's like a side quest of her own going on.
I was thinking of like Tiamat meets Godzilla.
We have something like that.
Oh, yeah.
You guys need to make a Godzilla friend in season two.
Let's just run down the story based questions.
Will we ever find out what happened to the Grungs or Flamikens?
Yes. Will we ever find out what happens to Bort?
And would he would he have been any help in this fight?
Yes, we will find out.
Tom, would he have been any help in this fight?
He would have been some help for trying to disrupt the ritual
because he's got mad archery skills.
But besides that, no, he would not have been a help
in the fight against Tiamat,
because he just wouldn't have been able to do as much damage.
Yeah, he wouldn't have had all of Flint's sweet turns
turn number of attacks and stuff.
Will there be a filler episode letting us know
what happens after the battle and how they begin to rebuild?
You're listening to it right now.
No, no, no.
Yes, there will be.
But it will be part of the next season.
Will there one day be an episode?
We can do that one separately.
So, yes, all of those questions.
Yes.
Now, how season two was going to work is we're going to come back
with the new characters, Moot, Glim and Sully
a little bit back in time.
So it's before the fight with Tiamat.
So we're going to catch up with them and figure out.
How they get together, because they're not together right now.
And then we're going to meet back up with Flint and Thea.
And then it's going to be like
there's going to be two stories running concurrently.
It's going to be exciting and terrifying.
Can't wait for it.
But yes, all of those points will be touched on
when we get back to Flint and Thea
and then dealt with in their own way, because their story is still going on.
That's very Lord of the Rings currently have back in time
by pitbulls stuck in your head.
Mr. Worldwide, Mr. Worldwide.
Yep. Yeah, I wish you all good.
But yes, it is very, very Lord of the Rings style.
Understand, I just do it.
No, it's OK.
Sorry, is there a question in there?
Can Amy rap poorly?
No, because no, I'm pretty sure you know, you you wrote.
You wrote it. I wrote it.
Yeah, you can we.
Amy, can you just like shoot me an email real quick?
Make sure I've got like pitbull on my wedding playlist
so I can see you rap that in real life.
That'd be great. Yes.
Perfect, perfect, perfect.
Sean, we know it's getting late for you.
We'll we'll ask you the last question, then you can decide.
Well, there's one more.
How much control?
Again, we kind of touched on this.
How much control did you have over the characters
over Tiamat's actions versus how much control did Russ dictate?
So Russ, I'm just a puppet for Russ, basically.
Yeah, yeah, that's how I remember it.
Yeah, it's going to go pretty fast in this game.
So Russ and I met.
What was it like two weeks before recording?
This was a long time ago.
Just to go over Tiamat, how the mechanism is going to work.
And that was it.
So basically I had a text to Russ if I had any questions.
So I was updating Russ with where my hit points were at.
And I think I asked I asked about Donnie.
I don't remember what else I asked.
If Donnie's attacks were counted,
kept in touch about hit points, I feel like that might have been it.
Yeah.
Oh, you were trying to.
There was one point you were trying to help them with something, too.
And I was checking out.
Oh, yeah, yeah. I sent you a message because I wanted to know
if Thea had a certain kind of spell
and Russ leaned over and looked at her sheet.
That that Amy was just madly trying to read the whole time,
just like he just leans over and he comes and look at the screen
the entire time.
I was just like, anything, anything.
And he just leans back and text me.
Nope.
So, yeah, that was it.
So so I yeah, full control.
Should I say, Russ, that I I did I went hard,
except on that final attack on Tom on Flint,
where I chose to bite him.
And then I rode really poorly because I have to subtract 15.
That said, though, I don't think you could have done anything else
because all of her breaths were reserved for legendary legendary actions.
Correct. But I guess you're right.
But I guess what I could have done is the full attack of the bite
plus the two claws, maybe.
I didn't even think of that.
So so I just chose one.
It is a valid attack.
So I chose the bite, which is the more damage than the other one, potentially.
So anyways, yeah, that was the only moment where I was like, all right.
You weren't even to know, though, that bite could have killed Tom.
Yeah, very well could have.
I think it could have. I knew he was low.
But I had to because you were at level two,
I had to have to subtract 15 points from every attack.
And so could you guys imagine
if Nularaaara was dead and Flute was dead and then Thea was just
she would switch sides.
Oh, yeah, no one would have blamed her.
I think she would have done anything to stay alive, baby.
What are you going to do?
But yeah, I had full control.
I had full control. Yeah, I concur.
Good. You've answered the question correctly.
Russ is madly testing Sean, saying what he should be saying.
Sean, blink twice if you need help.
Oh, God, he's blinking so much.
Too many times, too many times.
Russ is amazing.
He's the best.
Speak, Puppet, speak.
He's put a chip in my head when we saw each other in Seattle.
Well, I look forward to coming back, maybe not as Tiamat.
Thanks so much for having me, guys.
I'm going to go to bed. Thank you so much.
Love you all. Bye. Bye.
That guy's the best.
He is the best.
Such a delight.
He makes me so happy just when he's like just around.
OK, let's start going down some questions here.
And this is part two, not part two.
This is after the intro.
This is just as continuing.
Hey, you're just getting it straight.
How much did you love the names for the potions?
Oh, they were great. They were very fun.
And like a little bit tricky and misleading, but not because once you knew why,
yeah, it made sense.
Like once you knew what it did, Andre, like, OK, but yeah, go juice.
I assumed it was for speed, but Andre the giant.
OK, I get it. It's for strength.
Yeah, it was fun. They were fun.
Yeah, they were great.
Do you ever want the party to go through a maze again?
No, I mean, I feel like it's a good chance for redemption.
So I'm going to say yes. Oh, Tom, I'm going to say no,
because just not even for our character sake, for me as a human person
sitting over here with very poor sense of direction as it is,
trying to because we're not we don't usually use visuals,
which I think is a big problem.
It's probably part of why we literally beautiful mind this thing.
I get totally I get very frustrated.
And I'm just like, oh, I don't know, just pick a fucking side.
Like I'm like, I'm going to just go as random
until Russ pities us enough to show us the way out.
And it worked.
Well, yeah, 15 episodes later.
But I mean, you never have to show us.
It's that's true.
TMS could have risen and we could have still been in that fucking maze.
Oh, yeah, that could have happened.
Yeah, I would have had just keep coming up with new rooms to put you guys in.
I would have run out long ago.
It's like 20 episodes later and we think we're out of the maze.
And he's like, and you come back to the fountain room.
What? Oh, my God.
What a twist.
I mean, it can't happen now because you said it.
But I mean, are we in the maze right now?
Maybe. Yeah, so it's a hard thing for me.
I think we I think we talked about that a couple of times
that we don't necessarily want to do mazes,
but more puzzle, yes, puzzles or that sort of thing.
I liked the easy puzzle that that Carla gave us
when we had to go and find that feather
in Carla's one shot.
Yeah. And there was a little a little drizzle, a little drizzle.
It's a it's a puzzle and a riddle.
It's a wordplay. It's fun.
Yeah. Yes.
So not necessarily mazes,
but puzzle based things will probably start to work in
and try and figure out a better way
so that we can visualize whatever is happening,
because I think that's the main breakdown is the visual
is a little bit lost in the way we play
just trying to describe everything.
So, yes, but no, but yes, but no.
Will there ever be a campaign GM or DM by Carla or Amy?
This could probably be for Patreon specifically, but
I think I'd like to try my hand at it again.
Yeah, I would maybe do it again.
I mean, just like something short, like a few episodes
as opposed to like three years. Yeah.
Like a two to four, like a two to four.
Yeah, but just doing the one was like
it could have been way more in depth easily.
Like that easily could have been three episodes.
Yeah. Well, yeah, that one.
Those ones were both over two hours.
Yeah. Yeah.
So they were already two.
And then, yeah, we could have spent more time
kind of between elements. Right.
So, yeah. So, yes.
Yeah. Look for that on Patreon.
Patreon.com slash dumb dragon cast in the near ish future.
Was there any item you were both like, well, it is a bad
because he promises his body can't cash.
Next week. Next week.
His body's writing checks.
His math is writing checks.
Yeah, it's all right. Let's move on.
Was there any item you forgot about
that you now think would have been useful?
Using my Tome of Thunder.
Earlier, like zipping in and out,
like using it to teleport myself in many places.
I mean, the dudes who are up top,
which was my initial reason I wanted to teleport,
they were floating and teleported there.
It would have been like, I'd be like, OK,
how many actions can I have?
Can I get up there and then do my boot thing?
Like, so I wouldn't have minded using the jumpy
diamond in the Tiamat fight.
Yeah. But I just didn't think to do it right.
We could have moved a lot faster
because we could have gotten 50 feet, right?
Well, you could have teleported 30 and then moved your 30.
So, yeah, you could have teleported many times.
Imagine juggling three diamonds and going, whoop, whoop, whoop.
It's true. 30, 60, 90, boom.
Should have what it could have.
So that's all this is. What about you, Carla?
Anything? I don't think so.
Like, I actually like kind of remembered to do things
in that final fight.
So and to be fair, I didn't like since then,
I didn't go back and look because.
Yeah, me neither.
Because you're living in the past, baby.
Always moving forward, right?
Hey, I have a question.
Did Sean roll disadvantage for me when he attacked
whenever he attacked me because I had my cloak of displacement?
He had True Sight. He had True Sight.
Yeah, he canceled it out.
God, could he be invisible?
Because he disappeared to us, but not to him.
Yeah, not to her, though.
So, yeah, we're always I always feel like I'm
like misgendering Tiamat, but it's because Sean is a he
and Tiamat is a she.
That's where that disconnect.
It came up a couple of times in the episode.
And I think somebody mentioned it.
But yet we tried very hard and we were very distraught.
Yeah, there was a lot going on.
We were directing a lot of we were looking at Sean's face.
Right. So I was saying, yeah, I don't know.
I just feel so.
And plus, I was legitimately nervous during the fight.
And when I'm nervous, I just like
I'm not in control of what my brain is doing.
Like when Tiamat knocked your weapon out of your hands,
you're like, yeah, cool, cool.
Yeah, cool. Like I attack her again.
It's like with what weapon?
Oh, right.
I don't know. I blocked that out completely.
So good.
He just blacked out for a minute.
I thought about taking it up.
I was like, no, it's perfect to the mindset
that everybody was in at that moment.
Yeah, we were like in it.
Like it was heightened and it was like, ah.
Yeah, and I like just missed a critical on one roll.
And then I like added too many bonuses to it.
And it was like, ah, and I was like, wait,
no, that's not right.
But I was so like, oh, if only I had the critical
that my brain was like, yeah, just say stuff.
What the fuck?
How much do you think you've grown as a player
and or DM since you started playing?
This much?
Yeah.
I mean, some because I'd never played before.
So definitely some.
There's absolutely been growth.
And I think I'm always a bit torn on it.
Sometimes I feel like, hey,
we kind of know what we're doing now.
Like I do actually like kind of understand
like the basics of how this game is played.
If I like listen to other podcasts or whatever,
it's like, okay, like I get what's happening.
And then sometimes when we're playing,
I'm like, I have no fucking idea what I'm doing.
Like, I don't even know how to play this game at all.
So some.
D&D is so like life.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes you feel like you really got it.
Right, you feel like you've got it all together.
Yeah.
And then you realize you don't.
And then you look at other people
and you're like, I get what their life is going on.
And then you try to do your own thing.
And you're like, I don't know what's happening.
No idea.
Yeah.
As a DM, I think that I've grown a bit.
I mean.
Are you looking for validation?
No, I'm not looking for validation.
Is this where we say nice things about Russ?
No, stop it, stop it, stop it.
Is this the time that we say nice things?
Oh, our congratulatory back patting?
We haven't had the back pat.
We haven't had the back pat yet.
Hey, Russ.
So yes, stop it.
I think I've grown some.
In that I didn't run a three-year campaign before this.
And I think that we've grown together as players and DMs,
just knowing where our comfort level
and our strengths are within the game
and then pushing each other to grow and make them better.
I agree with that because there was one point
when we were podcasting in a closet
and we had this conversation where.
Look at us in a house now.
God, we're not only growing as players,
but we're growing as adults.
Where we talked how we really suck
at talking to people in game
and how we need to transition from player to character
and like fucking start to role play.
And so I think I tried to get into it
with like this wispy voice.
I think at one point Thea,
had she was just a little more like that.
I think there was like two episodes.
I know, it didn't last long
because it just didn't feel true to her.
But I remember certain parts,
like Tom would say something and I'd be like,
and what would it sound like if Flint said that?
And we would really like be on each other like that.
Like Carla would be like, she said in the game,
like said new Laura.
And I think we've exponentially grown
in that factor that we can actually,
and I think it was part of getting out of our own heads
and just, you know, like we're playing a game.
We're grownups pretending.
Well, it's a shift from around the table playing,
which there's a lot of games around the table
that do a lot of role playing,
but a lot of them that I've been a part of
are much more mechanics-based.
So you walk into a room, you loot the dungeon,
you move to the next one.
You fight the thing, you do that,
you move to the next one.
Russ and Tom would be talking about something.
Carla and I'd be making dick jokes on the side,
not even knowing what Tom and Russ were talking about.
Meanwhile, we've solved the puzzle, we've moved on.
And Carla and Amy have like a library of dick jokes.
We think we're hilarious.
So that hasn't changed at all.
I don't remember where I was going with that.
But for the podcast,
to make more of a narrative out of the game,
we had to get more into character.
And I think, yeah, there was definitely a point,
and I remember it.
I can't remember the exact episode,
but we got off the call and was like,
you guys just ran through that NPC
and didn't ask them a single question
about anything that was relevant to anything.
So we need to treat people as people in this game.
And from that point,
I think council sessions have gotten better,
general interactions between yourselves as characters
have gotten better, NPCs has gotten better,
and the story, I think, has grown a lot since then.
And we've been able to get more invested in it,
which is evident in the people who were very sad
when Nulara died.
Sure.
Was there a guest you wanted to have on
but couldn't make work?
Travis McElroy.
We never tried.
Did we even ask him?
Yeah.
Oh, you never sent the email?
Not yet, because where were we gonna put him?
We got to, we got to...
Oh, you mean in the game.
I was like, he could sit on my lap.
We got to, we had a bunch of guests on
like kind of back to back to back.
And then we got to Kuth's lair.
And then it was like pedal to the metal
to get you to Tiamat.
Yeah, it kind of kicked into overdrive there.
No, it couldn't really fit in.
And we were so locked into the Tiamat thing
because we were playing that arc
that it like didn't have a lot of space.
But now with like, it's things are more open.
So we have more possibilities
to have people on in the future.
There were lots of people
that we thought about inviting on,
but just as running the game,
we'd already introduced 99% of the characters
that you were going to interact with from here on out.
And to incorporate a new character
within a new story within a side arc
would have derailed and then...
Yeah, you know what?
We would have been on that side adventure
for another seven months.
So, yes and no.
So we're gonna try and get more on in season two.
There's gonna be like two separate stories
to incorporate people in and try some different things.
Do you think you'd ever get a guest DM
so that you can all just play?
That's a fun idea.
Yes and yes, it will happen.
Oh, all right.
Okay, fun.
Look at us also learning answers to questions.
Working out details with our good friend, Sean.
Excellent.
I would love to play a game that Sean DMs.
Yeah.
Cause we get a chance to play with Russ
in Patreon episodes that Tom DMs,
which is fun cause he's like a little trouble maker.
Yeah, he is.
So it would be really fun.
He's a chaotic neutral cat.
What do you expect?
For all four of us.
I hope he picks a quieter character next time.
That's all I have to say.
I like to play too much.
So yes, I don't want to say too many details
because all the details haven't been worked out yet.
Sorry to throw you under the bus there, Sean,
but now you have to do it.
A question for the DM.
How much of the module did you change
in order to bring about the best story possible?
I didn't change a lot.
I expanded a lot.
The council sessions, there's nothing in the module.
So I expanded on those to treat them
as kind of a role play at activity
and exercise for my players.
And God did we love it.
Every minute. So much.
We got better.
We did get better.
We did. If you listen in succession
of the different council meetings.
Not good to use passable conversation.
At one point I turned a chair around backwards
and tried to have real talk.
Yeah, you did.
Cool person style.
Yeah. Yeah.
You did it.
So I expanded those.
The big battle for Tiamat in the module
is just a straight stealth operation.
Like it's going into the tunnels
and sneaking in as much as you can.
All of the outside the battle, that's all expanded.
All the big battle, all the lead up to,
the travel to, the watching the battle
kind of roll out towards.
All of that was expanded on.
And then throughout, in the earlier episodes
plotted in different side quests
to kind of build out the world,
knowing that rise of Tiamat will come at some point.
It was inevitable.
It was inevitable.
And then we're going to need story beyond that.
So to give you cause character lock points
throughout that weren't specifically tied
to the Tiamat battle.
So those, yes.
Cathy, once it noted that she thinks we're awesome.
That's nice.
Thanks Cathy. We think you're awesome.
Will there maybe one day be an episode
with a full account of what happened
to Thea, Flint and Nularaaaa before the podcast started?
No, we can't remember.
Like that is the right answer.
You want an answer?
You want an honest answer?
So you're saying there's not going to be,
ever be a backstory episode.
Well, I mean, if there was one that we cooked up
but maybe didn't actually stick to what we actually did.
Cause who can remember?
I mean, I still have my notes guys.
Yeah.
That doesn't mean anything,
but I do still have my notes.
We could bring back Jillian.
I was, I was a drug dealer for Flint.
It was mostly Thea wanting to tie people up
and throw them in rivers.
That's true and definitely get laid.
I'm so glad she didn't die a virgin.
Yeah.
So maybe, we don't know.
Haven't talked about that one.
What has been, have been some of your favorite moments
in the story, example, when Grancis made the best pancake,
something like that.
Oh God.
And that was pretty good.
Tying people up and throwing them in a river.
But that happened before the podcast.
That's part of the backstory.
That's part of backstory.
When Amy summoned the like crocodiles or alligators
or whatever it was,
when we were in like that flooding tunnel.
The tunnels.
That was pretty great.
That was really funny.
I loved it when Nularaaaa rode a fucking T-Rex.
That's what I was going to say.
Yeah, that was good too.
Anytime there was like animal stuff, I was super into it.
Play that back.
Just that.
When there was dinosaurs or I got to ride a hippogriff.
Sorry, you've already said it.
Somebody's saying that it's fine.
That was really fun.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a gift now.
You can edit it out.
Russ, you have the power.
Yeah, I don't know.
There was a lot of good, just like little.
I love any moment Thea tried to flirt with anybody.
Oh, me too.
Just any her and, oh my God.
Well, I can't remember his name.
Thea would remember.
Delaine?
Yeah, yeah.
I think she really thinks they're like forever material.
I enjoyed any time I got to play as Bort,
just because he was so like decisive
and like, I don't give a real fuck about these people.
I need to do my own thing.
Yeah, that whole, those two episodes when you went to Thea.
When we were able to actually get the rolls to work
and get it kind of back and forth, it was awesome.
Yeah, when he just like peaced out and like,
well, I'm going and like close the door in their face.
Yeah, Flint was there and he was humming
and hawing on something and then we were,
all right, you're Bort now.
All right, peace out, bye.
I got shit to do later.
It's good.
I love all of our ridiculous rolls.
Roll to P, roll to hammock.
Yeah, roll to hammock was great.
The hammock was good.
Oh, I love talking to Ver, no, the fair.
The Taraz.
Taraz.
Oh, Taraz.
Taraz was great and so was Arvid.
Was that his name?
Oh, the creepy alchemist.
Oh my God, but I loved it.
Like some of those people felt so like fleshed out to me
and hilarious.
Real people.
How do you choose
when your character's personality evolves
or do you try and stick to your character sheet
and the initial creation as much as possible?
Oh man, I create a character sheet
and then I go balls to the wall, forget about it.
Yeah.
Every time.
Kind of the same way.
Like originally in my character sheet,
Flint had like a pretty rocking case
of post-traumatic stress disorder.
And then that never, I found that very like,
I don't have experience with that.
I felt disingenuous trying to play it.
So like I just stopped playing it.
I think we talked about that kind of early on too.
And we tried to think of ways that we could bring that up,
but it just didn't fit naturally.
It always felt gross
because that's like a real thing that is really terrible.
Yeah, it felt unearned.
And I think that was brought up on a whim.
I think that was actually my fault
because Russ did the whole like,
well, how do you two know each other?
And I was like, well, I'm a pot dealer.
And I think your backstory was all like
how you were in the military.
And I just immediately went to,
and I'm Flint's dealer to help him with his PTSD.
Like, and that was that.
It was just a way to connect it.
Cause we were sitting around the table
and like making jokes, right?
Drunk half the time.
Like that's how that came up is like,
how would these people know each other?
Like they have nothing in common.
So, and I think a lot of it, sorry, Amy, go ahead.
Oh no, I was just gonna say like with the,
she started out as quite the like sex monger drug addict
a little bit like pothead hits on everyone.
Lots of talking about her titties.
And I think she grew up a lot
because she's fairly young in term of like elf age.
So I think she grew up a lot on these adventures
and you know, smartened up a little bit.
Unfortunately for her, like she'd be mad about it,
but turned into a person that her parents
would probably respect more.
These two kind of go hand in hand.
When we first started recording,
did you ever think we would ever be closing in
on 100 episodes?
And-
Russ is so mad we haven't hit 100 episodes.
I mean, we technically have.
I mean, I think we're very close.
No, but I mean our arc has ended
and now we're humming and hawing over
what do we do about like the second season?
Are we starting back at one for this second season?
And Russ is like, but I wanna see the number 100.
Well, I mean season two has to be 100 episodes.
Oh God.
And then, so-
They're gonna be shorter episodes.
Did we ever think we would, you know,
be closing in on 100 episodes?
And what made us choose to continue on
after we finished the Tiamat arc
where there were times when we thought,
well, that's enough.
I mean, I think there's easy answers
to all those questions.
Like when we first started, I would say fuck no,
not in a million years.
I didn't think anyone would listen to episode one.
Yeah, the audio was rough on that first one.
Let's go ahead and skip to that first recap, it's fine.
So yeah, I mean, that's an easy one to answer.
The second one of like, why do we continue on?
Cause like these people are my like best friends.
We family now.
And they're fantastic.
And I love spending time with them.
It's true.
Yeah, we're like a little D&D family.
That's why.
I see you guys more than I see any of my other friends.
Me too.
So same here?
We have like running dates.
That guy literally.
There's nobody else I think.
We usually see you at least once a week.
We schedule our lives around each other.
Which is crazy, I don't see anyone else once a week.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, easy, quick, quick answers.
No, the three of them didn't think
that we would make it to a hundred episodes.
And what made us continue to decide to keep going
is that we just love it so very much.
Friendship, love, man.
Friendship, love.
What are the pros and cons of recording at a distance?
Pro, I can fart in this room.
And Tom and Carla can't hear it.
Sorry about that, Russ.
Yeah, it happens more than you care to.
I mean, pro about it, like it's awesome
to spend time with my friends
and also be in my own space.
If that lets like a weird thing,
but it's like awesome.
No, it's true.
If anyone's ever watched TV with a friend,
like via talking on the phone,
but watching TV at your own separate homes,
like if you have a favorite show.
Oh, totally.
It's kind of like that.
It's being in your own comfortable space.
It's being able to go, hold on, I need to pee
and leaving the room and using your own washroom.
It is very comfortable.
It sucks though.
I hate that we're an hour ahead
because my teaching schedule is just stupid.
That makes things hard.
And I just get tired really easy.
And I hate that.
Cause I feel like I went out a lot
when we could keep going.
And I'm like, when you guys were in Korea,
it was kind of brutal.
Korea was way different.
Time is the challenge.
Technology is actually like pretty easy now.
It can be hard for some like visual aspects,
I guess of the game, like we use roll 20,
but not a lot.
Remember old school, you guys?
Round the table, we'd have a whiteboard.
We had a whiteboard and stuff like that.
That did make it easier in a way.
Pieces of colored paper that we would rip
and write a number on it
to be the different bad guys.
Orc one, orc two.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's really the main thing
is that it helps us putting together a podcast.
It makes it harder sometimes to visualize
some of the more mechanic based aspects
that otherwise we'd be like, here's the map.
Here's the thing.
This is what you see.
We could use miniatures more if we were together.
It's tough to use those when doing a podcast though,
because like at one point we were using a map
and then Russ was like,
now you're just saying like, I go here
and that means nothing to someone listening.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like anything.
We had to cut it.
It's terrible for an audio medium.
We're not telling a story.
We're saying like, I move four spaces to the left.
I go to B7, like sweet.
You suck my battleship.
In those first 15 episodes,
we kind of figure all that out
because we start very map heavy,
because it was cool.
We've got maps, we've got things.
And then listening back, we don't say anything.
What, all your maps look like dicks.
Dicks are vaginas.
All these caves are vaginas.
It's just how it happens.
It's just how Russ draws them.
That's the pros and cons.
This one looks like it's for me.
How excited or terrified am I to be off the module now?
Both Barry.
Yeah, that's fair.
Both Barry.
Both Barry.
Excited because there's a lot of story ideas
that I've had kind of as we've been working through this
that I've had to kind of rein back
because if we did them,
we wouldn't, Tiamat either would have risen
while you guys were off doing something else
or it wouldn't be rising for a long time.
And then kind of canonically in the timeline,
it makes it very difficult to be believable now
that the cult isn't just doing this.
I'm terrified because when I don't have ideas,
I could just open the book and be like,
well, we're doing this today.
And I can flesh that out with no problem.
But now I've got to make sure
that I have shit kind of planned out
for the next few episodes
and hope that it all works out.
It will because you guys are awesome.
And I can just be like,
well, I don't have much planned today.
It's another drinking episode.
Everyone gets your beers.
Let's meet a random goblin.
And because you guys have gotten much better
at role playing and being in character,
we can do those episodes where we plan for an episode
or we just talk to NPCs
and just do world building within the episode.
And it still sounds fun and interesting,
at least to me.
Just to tie into the growth too,
I don't feel like we could have done that before.
I remember coming into these sessions being nervous
and being like,
okay, well, at least I know
that Russell tell me what I need to do.
And now I'm like,
God help him if he tells me what I need to do.
Yep.
It's true.
Kind of touched on this.
How has playing D&D changed your relationships
with each other or has it?
I love them more.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's so good.
Yeah, we're way closer friends now than.
Then when we were living in the same city.
Then when we lived in the same town.
It's true.
Although I'm sure it would have continued
and grown to be.
Yeah, like had you guys never moved?
Like we would have,
well, I don't know that we would have kept playing D&D,
but we would have like kept having game nights
and hanging out.
And I'm sure we would be like where we are now, but.
Yeah.
I guess we were still regularly getting together
every couple of weeks to play D&D
or something else if D&D wasn't working out, but.
I think it was like Thursday, 8 p.m.
or Thursday at seven.
We were getting together.
So I think it would have happened.
And I think I would have drunkenly said enough times.
We're so funny.
We should make this into a podcast
that we maybe would have tried to stick.
To stick like a snowball microphone
into the middle of the table
and see what happened.
But I don't know if we would have been successful.
Are we successful?
Like, I feel like we're successful.
We're, success is a funny thing to measure,
but I think we are.
Like personally though,
I feel like in this game,
like we've done a really good job.
I feel like we have.
We've played the game really well.
I think as far as the product goes that we put out,
the podcast that we put out, I'm very proud of it.
Counts.
I mean, I think that the fact
that we're still doing it means that it's successful.
The fact that people have asked us questions about it
and we're doing an entire episode
that is now going on to an hour and a half
is dedicated to questions alone.
All right.
We love you guys.
I think that's just like straight up.
Just like our listeners are awesome.
Thank you.
Yeah, they are.
If you could change anything about your character,
personality, skills, anything else,
would you want to and what would it be?
No, for Thea.
She's evolved as a person
and you either like love a person
the way they are and you don't wish to change someone.
So I'm going to say no.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of think no for Flint as well.
We touched on it before,
but like he needed every scrap of energy
he had in that fight and that kind of all led to that.
So I don't think so.
I mean, I guess not dead.
If I had to like pick a thing to not be.
It's a good choice.
But otherwise, I don't think so.
Like I just have so much affection for new Laura
and feel like she grew and like their relationships grew
and all of that.
So yeah, I like them.
Some of my favorite things during the process.
I know this was an answer from before,
but when new Laura and Thea would have like girl time.
And braiding hair.
And like how we like became like, you know, best buds
and we're braiding each other's hair and stuff.
Like I love that.
And that's not what new Laura was like
at the beginning at all.
I don't even think you would have probably hugged Thea
or touched at all.
No, I don't think so either.
You are very touchy.
I would have maybe changed the fact
of remembering how to call it train.
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah.
If only you had asked.
That train has sailed.
Was there anything in particular
that motivated your choice of class
for our new characters or our first characters?
Your first characters.
Oh, gosh.
I mean, well, I can jump in.
I wanted to play a spell caster, 100%.
After playing like a straight up pure fighter,
I wanted to see the exact other side of that.
And so it's going to be fun.
I think that's kind of my thing.
I wanted to, like my first thing was
I want to be everything that I'm not really right now.
I can't, I don't, I'm not magical
as don't tell my daughter.
And so I wanted to, I wanted to be a spell caster.
I wanted to be earthy.
I wanted her to be an elf
because I think elves are beautiful.
And I wanted her to be tall because I'm short.
And I, you know, like I wanted her to be total mythical
because when I think of D&D,
I think of like a wonderful fantasy land
where you can be anything you want to be.
And so I made, I made Thea that way.
And then after having played a spell caster
and like I chose to go in a complete opposite direction
with a halfling.
So I went from tall to even shorter than I am now.
And I decided to switch genders as well.
Sullivan's light is male.
So I thought that would be interesting.
No, I've never been a man.
No, I do not identify as a man,
but that doesn't mean I can't play as a man
because this is a fantasy world, my friend.
And I would like to just see how it plays out.
And he is a rogue because Thea was not at all sneaky
or subtle in any kind of way.
And I think playing something like an opposite
kind of what Flint or what Tom did
because we don't know each other's names.
I kind of did the same thing.
I was like, okay, did the spell caster thing
that wasn't effective in the last battle
scarred me a little bit.
So happy I kind of went to something different rogue
because I didn't want to go ranger.
No, God, why would you?
I think I also wanted to be like,
like remember New Laura used to be really rude.
Yeah.
And like you were so uncomfortable with that.
I remember that.
I thought that would be really fun,
but instead I fucking hated it.
Like it made me so uncomfortable
and I just couldn't do it well.
Like it's funny because my day job, I'm an actor.
So it's not like I can't,
but playing a character like live,
like improv-ing as a character
is a totally different thing
than playing a character that is written for you
and you know how it's gonna be.
And I just didn't find it fun, which is why,
and she like evolved out of that, which is great.
But it just is more fun for me
to like have played Elia in our Patreon
and then I think Glim will be like that too.
Although she is like, she's very sweet
and she is like good,
but she's also like quite the starry-eyed naive person.
So I think that will be a challenge,
but in a different way,
in a way that won't make me uncomfortable
to like be rude to my friends,
even though they knew I was playing a character.
I think that's gonna be a great opportunity
for like comedy and like funny misunderstandings
and getting you into some trouble with this new character,
which is really great.
Those are things you look for in a good story.
Yeah, is it'll be fun and like now having,
well not having met the other characters in game,
but knowing them, you know, like it will be fun
because they are all very different.
Yeah, so I think that'll be fun.
We've kind of touched on this one.
How do you feel about how the inevitable rise went?
Did we get too much into that, like just in general?
I felt ineffectual, is that a word, ineffective?
Yeah.
I feel like it actually went as well
as it could have imagined it going.
Only one of us died.
Only one of us died.
It's kind of amazing.
I thought we were all done for.
Me too.
Yeah, as far as running it and knowing what to expect
as Tiamat arose, I think you guys played it as good
as well as you could have,
because one more turn, like we said.
Oh, we were both dead and we were all dead.
I stick to the fact
that I think I can help out for two turns.
And then it's a Tiamat podcast after that.
That's right.
Then you and Sean just have a Tiamat podcast.
It'd be so fun.
I mean, Sean's great.
I would listen to it.
Color Titi for short.
Tiamat with all his animal,
with all her animal companions,
cause she liked animals, so it's come on.
I like this spinoff podcast.
Can you and Sean work on that?
We're working on a lot of things
behind the scenes here, okay?
Animal top, Titi.
With Titi and Russ.
Titi, oh God.
The rise of Titi.
Not nearly as perfect.
For me, were there times when we went somewhere
that I didn't expect?
Story wise, no, I don't think so.
Because I don't want to say
that everything was railroaded,
but because of the design that the module laid out
and because after a certain point,
I was like, we need to finish this
if we want to do anything different.
The goals were very clear.
So where you guys went,
like it wasn't always the most direct path to get there.
They all had to be done though.
But they all had to be done.
Like there was not a lot of lost time,
I guess, between goals.
So no, where I was pleasantly surprised
was as you guys were growing and developing as players,
how some of those smaller interactions became much bigger
and the characters that you interacted with
became more endearing and kind of followed you around
and became more and made the story bigger
along with you as you were growing
and changing into the characters that you were playing.
So that's where you surprised me.
Not surprised, that's where, good.
Amy, if you could wild shape into any animal
in real life, what would it be?
Oh God, like a real life animal.
Cause I would totally choose winter wolf.
Any animal in real life,
that's how the question is phrased.
Winter wolf, but dire wolf.
That's a real thing, right?
No, wait, that's Game of Thrones.
Is it real?
It's real.
I mean, wolf is real.
I don't know, anytime I see wolves,
they're like not very happy.
Their whole habitat's not doing well.
They're always kind of mangy.
So I'm gonna say.
I'm gonna leave this pause in there.
Oh, you should, it's just so long.
What's your favorite animal?
No, a cuttlefish.
There you go, cuttlefish.
It's gonna change into a cuttlefish.
And I'll strobe and eat crabs,
and I'll be the best at it.
These two kind of tie in together.
They're the last couple of questions.
What are you looking forward to moving beyond
the rise of Tiamat into season two?
Or what do you hope to see more of as players?
This one's from me, I'll just say.
This question's from me.
I'm looking forward to getting the levity back.
The last, like from the end of the maze on,
like we buckled in, we were serious.
We had our moments.
We are a comedy podcast after all.
But I mean, like I felt like my character
got more serious about it.
And I am, and I think maybe part of me
was kind of missing that feeling
that you get when you first start playing
and the silliness in it a lot more,
because the stakes aren't as high.
And I think I missed.
You mean you haven't written out your wills
as to what happens if you die yet?
How depressing.
Exactly.
But yeah, I think I'm looking forward to the freedom
that comes with not knowing what's going to happen next,
because I mean, you don't even know.
How are we supposed to know?
I know.
Well, we haven't even, like the new characters
haven't even met yet.
There's so much potential.
So like, I feel like I have an idea
about how that will go.
But like, who knows?
All three of you probably have a different idea
of that initial first interaction, right?
Yeah, I'm looking forward to like getting to know
a new character too.
Yes, all of those.
And that makes sense as far as darkness goes,
because from that point, that's like where Thay happened,
where the dagger was introduced,
where the ramp up.
Yeah, like friends were stabbing friends.
Like shit was getting real.
It just was so serious and then.
Like there were not as many dick jokes.
You know what it reminds me of?
I miss the dick jokes.
It reminds me of like the Marvel Cinematic Universe,
like all of the shit leading up to like Infinity War
and Endgame.
It's nice to every now and then have an Ant-Man and Wasp
where it doesn't really matter what's happening.
It's just fun.
Yeah.
And then which plot hooks, villains or cities
set up in season one?
Do you think would be most interesting
to return to or catch up with?
Salazar's got to come back, you guys.
Yeah. We're the fuck.
We're the fuck. Totally.
Did he go?
That dude's been in one episode.
Disappeared.
I know, but he was like such a, again,
around the table, which no one cares about,
but he was like.
He was the carry-along NPC.
What a dingus he was coming in
and doing the killing blow after we like almost killed.
He did get us those fantasy Costco memberships though,
but I mean.
Fantasy Costco probably got destroyed.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, they go for the supplies first.
But like I love Taraz.
I did too.
Yeah, Taraz is great.
It's so fun.
I want to know about like the doppelganger people.
Like what the fuck?
That's pretty fun.
Yeah.
What about the dude that like was being all Frankensteined
by that one dude.
Yeah.
You like put it in at the end of one of the episodes
and like no one knew and then I listened to it
and I was like, whoa, wait, what just happened?
That was after the Mirabar episode,
the zombie guy with Thelonious Prince Bane.
Thelonious, that fucking Thelonious.
Yeah, and he took your war buddy,
and built an army somewhere maybe, who knows?
But the option's there for us.
The option's there.
He left himself so many little Easter eggs,
so many little things that could happen.
Well, there is like, there was so many things
that were like, oh, well, this must be important.
And then Thelonious never came back.
And then we never saw it again,
but that doesn't mean it's not important.
It just wasn't important
to the inevitable rise of Tiamat, right?
So there's so many fun things.
And it's not that he never came back.
Again, in-game time versus real time, maybe a month.
Yeah.
Right?
It's true, and he's like a super powerful wizard.
So it's not that he didn't come back.
It's that it's such a short period of time.
We just hadn't seen him yet.
That it's that he's still doing shit
or he's somewhere else.
He's recovering after we killed his zombie army.
Yeah.
Yeah, it takes a man to recover
and build a new zombie, undead army.
Exactly.
Thank you everybody for sending in your questions.
We really appreciate it.
We can't wait for season two.
Yeah.
It's gonna be June 5th, the first episode back
when we touch base with Moot, Glim, and Sully.
I would like to do a mailbag episode like every six months.
I think this would be super fun.
Yeah.
It is fun.
So as questions come up, please send them to us.
And we may or may not answer them in the moment.
Might just bank them for a big old mailbag episode.
Until next time,
keep adventuring and.
Yeah.
That could be it.
You just gotta say with more conviction.
Yeah.
Until next time, keep adventuring.
We'll talk to you soon.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
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Music in today's episode was by Kavin McLeod
of incompetech.film music.io.
Dumbgeons and Dragons is a Dumb Dragons production.